Wiretapping scandal set 13: Prime minister’s building plots – part two
The first six wiretapped conversations played in this press conference are between Nikola Gruevski and Mile Janakieski. In the first conversation Gruevski asks Janakieski about the thing “at V.T.’s” and whether he has found more land with which the intended building plot wil be “completed”; how in expectation of the new Master Urban Development Plan (GUP) is asking Janakieski if he has done the trick or it should be sold – because there is a prospective buyer; we can hear him requesting to move the road “up and above” so the building plots won’t be damaged, and how the areas “hatched with blue”, which were state property will be usurped for the sake of his building plot. In addition, we hear Gruevski expressing his joy because he has taken the entire building plot up to the margin projected with the GUP, so nobody could build above his building plot, meaning that Gruevski’s building plot is the highest one; then we hear Gruevski warning Janakieski not to forget about the building plot “at V.T.’s”, because the GUP will soon be publicly presented and that part should be taken too, so it won’t end up in other people’s hands; and we hear him again requesting that the borders of that building plot should be moved upwards …
The following three conversations between Janakieski and Gruevski are dedicated to the manipulations and skullduggery done to Fijat Canoski. First, we hear Gruevski explaining how Canoski was proving that he is right about “Cosmos” and he even produced documents, and Gruevski’s response was that he didn’t know why the whole process is dragged away. Then he is speaking with ridicule about Canoski and the private things he shared… and Janakieski is told to think of some justification why the process is dragged away – and during the conversation we can hear the birth of the exact lie that is going to be told to the unfortunate investor. At the end of the first conversation, Gruevski makes clear why they do all this, and the reason is because they “were attacked” and Canoski wanted to “slice” them, and Gruevski “showed” him that certain individuals know to say enough. In the second conversation about Canoski, we hear Gruevski maliciously cheering that he is going to leave Canoski to “simmer the whole night” i.e. he is going to call him at 11:30 PM. Then, he is going to tell him that the situation is complicated, there are problems with the Cadaster… and tells Janakieski not to sign the document until late afternoon on Wednesday, because there will be voting in the morning, so Canoski could outtrick them…
In the final conversation Gruevski tells Janakieski that he had an encounter with Canoski and told him that they are helping, but there have been some mistakes, and the things became complicated. Canoski said that he is going to sue the mayors of Skopje and Gazi Baba and he is going to demand a compensation. Then Gruevski gives instructions to find Canoski guilty for something else, so Toni and Koce, who were upset about the threat, won’t appear guilty.
Press conference of Zoran Zaev, president of SDSM, in Skopje, 23rd of March 2015
(Below you will find the transcripts in English of the records played in this press conference)
Conversation between Mile Janakieski and Nikola Gruevski
NG: Now listen…
МЈ: Yes.
NG: What did you do about this, about VT, you know, we talked about it; you were supposed to look for new?
МЈ:. I have it. I have it; tomorrow I can present it to you.
NG: Above the line or below the line?
МЈ: On his right side.
NG: On his right side?
МЈ: Yes, a very good location.
NG: Have you seen the site?
МЈ: Yes, yes, I was there.
NG: On, on, mmmm, on the top or down?
МЈ: So, that line on the right, where there is a channel. There is a channel, the channel ends there, after it goes up.
NG: When you stand there, on the right, right?
МЈ: When you go up the street…
NG: Aha.
МЈ: So, you turn left towards this, then this above, on the right side. Tomorrow, around afternoon, if you want me I can come (to see you).
NG: Wait, wait. Explain to me now. When you go where you can drive, right?
МЈ: Yes.
NG: The main.
МЈ: OK.
NG: For that place, you turn right at the small street, right? A small one.
МЈ: You go on straight, then left, you go…
NG: Where straight, where do I go on straight?
МЈ: The large one, the main street.
NG: I continue straight the main street, then left.
МЈ: There is a curve there and you turn left towards the previous one?
NG: Yes.
МЈ: You don’t turn left, but there is a small, narrow street, on the right, actually you go on straight. There the channel ends and there above the channel there is…
NG: Above the channel?
МЈ: Yes.
NG: I don’t know that channel, but ok.
МЈ: I was there, it is ok.
NG: Aha.
МЈ: There aren’t any obstacles.
NG: How many? Total?
МЈ: There are 10 planned. Apparently 2-3 are state; tomorrow I’ll have precise data. Then we can manage it as the previous one. They are just smaller, around 600, 700, they are like that.
NG: Aha. But after that, it is difficult to carry out it in that manner, you know.
МЈ: I know.
NG: What if someone shows up.
МЈ: above, there are above, there are above, but also I’ll have more data tomorrow. So tomorrow or on Tuesday, at the Government meeting, during the Government meeting, during the break, to present everything to you.
NG: OK, on Tuesday, at the Government meeting, ask me to get out. I would, in the evening I am travelling, so when I enter in that period, give me a signal to tell me.
МЈ: OK, deal, see you on Tuesday.
NG: Bye.
Conversation between Mile Janakieski and Nikola Gruevski
NG: Look, taking into consideration that the GUP (Master Urban Development Plan) is approaching.
МЈ: OK.
NG: If we don’t find a buyer for this, you know, up at VT.
МЈ: OK.
NG: Let’s transform it as I told you, you know.
МЈ: Yes, yes, it is done like that.
NG: Then I will sell it immediately. I already have someone who is interested.
МЈ: It is done like that, generally, I told you. It is put there generally.
NG: So it is done generally, fine.
МЈ: Yes, I told you that and it is done already.
NG: Because this was cancelled, there is not another one, and I know there was not a long term project.
МЈ: Yes, yes, yes. I told you that, it is already done, too.
NG: So, it is already done.
МЈ: Yes, yes, yes.
NG: It was put generally, and then it will be arranged with a DUP.
МЈ: Yes, yes, yes.
NG: OK, OK.
МЈ: OK. Bye.
NG: Bye.
Conversation between Mile Janakieski and Nikola Gruevski
МЈ: Hello?
NG: Hello, what are you doing, Mile?
МЈ: I’m good, I was in Prilep, something short, private and I’m coming back.
NG: In Prilep?
МЈ: Yes. No, no, I was in Prilep, I’m coming back, I’m already in Veles.
NG: Aaaa, OK. Can you talk or you are with someone?
МЈ: Yes, yes, I can.
NG: I’m looking at what you sent me, the old and the new version.
МЈ: OK.
NG: It’s OK now. I see that the road is somewhere there.
МЈ: It has been corrected to the maximum, as much as it was possible.
NG: Maximum, ha?
МЈ: Yes. So, from the whole area, 1000 meters would be taken. It is written there the total and how much we would take.
NG: Aha.
МЈ: Why, it should be connected with another area. So, the maximum possible is taken.
NG: OK, OK.
МЈ: And the difference, if you had seen, there is a shaded space…
NG: Mhm.
МЈ:. That is the difference between private property and maximum line of the GUP. And now it is in the Cadastre…it is written there RM (Republic of Macedonia) and there is a user.
NG: Isn’t it possible for the road to pass above where there is a small street and it stops somewhere there? Up, it is down, the projected one. I mean, yes, down, it is like that. And up, there is one which now exists and it ends in one place. In my opinion, it needs 50 more meters to get to the border of the parcel.
МЈ: The unpaved road, right?
NG: The unpaved road, yes.
МЈ: So, the thing I wrote to you about…
NG: Or this is better, the new one?
МЈ: The thing I wrote to you about is to make the unpaved one, to broaden it to be 5 meters, plus on both sides like walking paths and plus it would connect with the new…, the new, with the new street which is now in the current proposal. Because now… the current proposal has not been put in a plan yet and can’t be realized. So, you understand me, right?
NG: Yes.
МЈ: So, what would be done now would be to the border and when the plan would be made, it would be broadened and it, how much would it be I don’t know, I don’t know, around 100 meters maximum or less. The one crossing the middle.
NG: Mhm. OK. So, now we would go on the existing one, to make the curve and to broaden it a little more, i.e. yes, to become longer, to reach the boundary of the parcel.
МЈ: Yes, it would be 5 meters. So, a normal street, city street.
NG: Is it possible to be made by April?
МЈ: Well, it is in the programme, the annual one, it is there. Now a work order for the project should be given. I will talk to this guy, to give an order to do the project. Projecting lasts that long, because there are frame agreements and then, in spring, building could be started, when it becomes possible.
NG: Do you want me to tell him? On Monday, not now, on Monday I’m seeing him. It is his birthday, he invited me, so I’m seeing him.
МЈ: Well, mention to him.
NG: Although, I can call him, it is not needed to see him.
МЈ:. Mention it to him.
NG: I will tell him, the one that Mile will call you for, see if you can do it.
МЈ: That will work.
NG: It is for a friend of ours.
МЈ: Good, OK.
NG: You call him often, OK.
МЈ: Deal. Now, the only dilemma is the shaded one, whether to include it or not to touch it at all?
NG: Shaded in blue?
МЈ: Yes.
NG: That, what is that now, whose is that? It says state.
МЈ: That’s RM. Yes. RM, user right municipality of Centar.
NG: In what sense to include it?
МЈ: In the plan, in the range. Then completion could be done.
NG: Is it in the GUP?
МЈ: Yes, it is in the GUP. So, the shaded one is…
NG: Include it, if it is possible to be completed, include it.
МЈ: Yes. OK.
NG: It is a bit high, I guess, right?
МЈ: Yes.
NG: Because it is the highest there at the boundary.
МЈ: Yes, yes.
NG: How much is it in area?
МЈ: It says there, now I don’t know exactly how much it is, it says…
NG: It says a lot, but I don’t believe it. Probably it is something wider, it says 35.000. Well, yeah, it is in square meters, yes, yes. That…, well yeah, 35.000 is a lot.
МЈ: Then, let’s not include it?
NG: No, no, but no. It is a mistake, that’s what I want to tell you.
МЈ: Let me check, I don’t have it in front of me, I’ll check it and I’ll write to you shortly. Or…
NG: This seems to me like a small part of what it is now, do you get it?
МЈ: Yes, yes.
NG: Here, on paper it seems much bigger. On a drawing it is a small part of what is now. That’s why I’m saying…
МЈ: At the back, there is a property deed back. There it exactly says how much it is. Three sheets, there are three sheets.
NG: I’m looking at it, but… It says first… there are several like that, 34.786, then there in one 3, then 324, then 205, then 365 and total 35.593.
МЈ: But it is more… I’ll check…
NG: What?
МЈ: I’ll check how much it is exactly…
NG: No, those are square meters.
МЈ: I’ll check how much it is exactly and I’ll write to you.
NG: Yes, you should check how much it is exactly.
МЈ: Good. Fine, OK.
NG: In any case, yes. To complete it.
МЈ: OK. It is good, do you know why it is good? Because tomorrow in the future anything can happen, someone above can build. In this way, it is not possible, it is concrete, and no one can build above then.
NG:. Yes, yes, that’s what I want.
МЈ: OK.
NG: Bye.
МЈ: Bye.
Conversation between Mile Janakieski and Nikola Gruevski
МЈ: Hello?
NG: Mile, Mile?
МЈ: Yes.
NG: Let me ask you. The blue line and the blue squares, so that has to be completed…
МЈ: Well….
NG: That line, where it ends now, there the GUP ends?
МЈ: Yes, it is 2.000.
NG: That’s what I thought, yes.
МЈ: Sorry?
NG: That’s what I thought, I’m saying. Look, according to my estimation, it was like that. I had figures on my mind.
МЈ: Yes, yes, yes.
NG: Aaa, good, so the line of the GUP is here so no one can build above it, right?
МЈ: Yes.
NG: Well, that’s what’s important to me because someone will buy it 100%.
МЈ: Yes, yes, yes.
NG: 100%, it is a matter of time.
МЈ: OK. This will turn out 2.000, good.
NG: So, definitely organize it with whoever you need to… everything.
МЈ: Deal.
NG: Bye.
МЈ: Deal, I’ll give you a final proposal.
Conversation between Mile Janakieski and Nikola Gruevski
МЈ: Hello?
NG: Hello?
МЈ: Yes?
NG: Aaa, don’t forget the other one, at VT.
МЈ: Yes, yes, yes, I know, OK.
NG: Because I hope to close here, you know.
МЈ: Yes, yes, yes. I know, I know, I know.
NG: Everything is virtual to me… Everything… and I’m counting on this.
МЈ: Yes, yes, I know, OK. Both of them…
NG: If it is not, this…
МЈ: Both options, I know. It is clear.
NG: I also think that with the new variant, with this, you know, the high one.
МЈ: Yes, yes.
NG: Maybe I’ll achieve higher price for that.
МЈ: OK. So, by February 1, it should be on a public survey, that’s the plan.
NG: OK.
МЈ: I’ll have that on mind.
NG: Because I hope for that. When I close it, here I cover a vast part, I cover the biggest part.
МЈ: It’s all clear to me.
NG: If we forget it, someone else will take it further.
МЈ: OK, clear, everything is clear.
NG: Bye.
МЈ: Bye.
Conversation between Mile Janakieski and Nikola Gruevski
NG: Hey, something else occurred to me. Now, that parcel will rise above? Because with the completion…
МЈ: Yes, yes, yes.
NG: …and the highest point will be on another place, not that one.
МЈ: The same, the same applies, yes. It is to be at the highest point, yes. Up…
NG: The same, but in fact it will take a part out of the current parcel, right?
МЈ: Well, there is like a small road, it will be a little higher, yes. I know that on the basis of the Cadastre data, that… it occurred to me too.
NG: Yes, it should be removed upwards, out of the current line of the parcel or somewhere there, to be at the highest point.
МЈ: Yes, yes, yes, I know, I know.
NG: It occurred to me. Because when it is completed, the highest won’t be where it is now.
МЈ: Yes, yes, yes. The same occurred to me too. I had that I mind.
NG: OK, bye.
МЈ: I’ll have on Wednesday, I’ll give you proposals for both, how they would look like.
NG: Deal. Bye.
МЈ: Bye, bye.
Conversation between Mile Janakieski and Nikola Gruevski
NG: Mile?
МЈ: Yes.
NG: What are you doing?
МЈ: I’m having a committee meeting.
NG: Where are you, in which part of the building?
МЈ: Downstairs, Government, where the government holds meetings
NG: Aaa, downstairs, ha? He was here now.
МЈ: OK.
NG: Pretty scared. Pretty. So, I haven’t seen him like this before, never.
МЈ: Aha, he… OK.
NG: Fijat.
МЈ: Yes, I remembered, yes.
NG: I let him speak, he said everything. Everything… He took out various documents that they were right, he says, if I knew why this was so. A month ago, you signed something, then a repair was needed, now we’ve been waiting for the repair for a month. I don’t know, I say, I’m not familiar, completely; we will check for sure – I say – there’s something. But there isn’t, I asked the employees, and so on. And roughly, indirectly I told him politely what the remarks about him were. That he hasn’t turned up there, and I say, you know, I won’t tell you the other staff, why it is said like that. But, I say, it doesn’t mean that this man didn’t give it to you because of that, but there must be some technical… some issue, I say… And he started justifying about those two things. In the end, I said, I say I’ll talk to Mile, to see what the problems are, and I’ll call you tonight. Pleeease, call me tonight, tomorrow is Ramadan, I want to sleep peacefully tonight. I can’t sleep anymore. Hahahahaha. He seemed really very scared to me, I felt sorry for a moment, to tell you the truth.
МЈ: He is stuck.
NG: A? Auuu, I haven’t seen like this never before, and rarely has someone come to me that scared. Please, I’ll do anything you want. If you want, I’ll bring Velija here, let me arrange a meeting, I really have nothing to do with him, no business, I don’t even want to have a business with him. Our children are together, tomorrow they won’t be, they fight all the time. Hahahahaha. Please, hahahahah.
МЈ: At least he considers this as a favor.
NG: А?
МЈ: To considers this as a favor.
NG: He will consider this as a favor, yes, yes, yes. Now you have to find a reason why you’ve delayed him. Something… I don’t know, I don’t need to tell him details, tonight, I told him, tonight I’m going to call you.
МЈ: No, I’ll tell you right now. So, apparently, the departments made a mistake, they made an annex, I sent it to the Cadastre, to check it completely. And the Cadastre, apparently, will respond to me by tomorrow.
NG: Mhm.
МЈ: That I told you that.
NG: The departments made a mistake and you sent it to the Cadastre?
МЈ: Look, yes. So, officially, there is nothing. Unofficially…
NG: No, no, but fine. You sent it to the Cadastre, right?
МЈ: Unofficially to the Cadastre to check it, because they seemed strange to me and I was waiting from the Cadastre.
NG: You were waiting for an answer from the Cadastre. Fine.
МЈ: Unofficially.
NG: Unofficially, yes, yes. Unofficially you sent it, aha.
МЈ: Yes.
NG: OK, good, that’s a good excuse.
МЈ: Because they made a mistake with the size, I wanted to check the size etc, etc, etc.
NG: He wanted to arrange a meeting with Velija. I told him I would think about it. I think Velija now wants a meeting unwillingly. I don’t want him to think that because of Velija the job was done. He needs to count it as our favor.
МЈ: Favor. Good, it turned out well this way.
NG: It turned out well. So, not only has he shat in his pants, it’s running through his trousers.
МЈ: It is good for him to know that he mustn’t muck around.
NG: He mustn’t and can’t treat as like cheese, you know. Screw them, but I’ll find individuals this or that way I’ll do my job. To see that we are a compact whole.
МЈ: Yes.
NG: And when he attacks the whole, individuals know to step back and say stop. And we ask for nothing.
МЈ: Yes, yes.
NG: Yes, we ask nothing. Just this, he justified himself about the Parliament, please, I don’t want to come, I can’t take it. Hahahahah.
МЈ: Hahahahah.
NG: Please, I’m in business, I don’t know what to do. Here, at the next elections, if you want me I will sign for you for the next elections that I won’t stand for the elections, I’ll give the party to someone else… hahahahhaha… If you want me, I’ll sign somewhere, I am dead serious. Hahahahahah
Conversation between Mile Janakieski and Nikola Gruevski
МЈ: Now, how are we continuing going forward? To…
NG: I’ll call him tonight, let him think till tonight. I’ll call him later. Hahahaha. I’ll call him around half past eleven. Hahahahah. I’ll say – I spoke to Mile – the situation is complicated, there hasn’t been any answer from there, he sent it to the Cadastre, unofficially, but they haven’t answered him. I called there – I’ll tell him – they want to find something from the archives, something like that, but we’ll rush, Mile will risk to sign it on Monday, on Wednesday, by the end of the day on Wednesday.
МЈ: Fine.
NG: On Wednesday, by the end of the day, you’ll sign it because the voting is in the morning. He might have problems with his stomach by chance.
МЈ: OK. Deal, deal.
NG: If he calls you today, don’t answer him, to be constant.
МЈ: Deal, deal.
NG: After you sign it, call him and say – No, you were angry for no reason, I was waiting for – say – a confirmation, but the Prime minister urged to do you a favor, so I took a little risk.
МЈ: Fine.
NG: OK, I’ll make it look like you put yourself at risk
МЈ: OK. Deal.
NG: You’re going forward without an answer from there (the Cadastre) …. You’re taking a risk.
МЈ: Fine. OK.
NG: Bye.
Conversation between Mile Janakieski and Nikola Gruevski
NG: Hello, Mile, what are you doing?
МЈ: Fine, I’m at Vlado’s, in a meeting.
NG: Aaa, OK. Fijat was here now.
МЈ: OK.
NG: I told him that we reviewed his case thoroughly. That we are looking for ways to help him. I mentioned you, that we talked and that you are looking for ways for ways to help him. I told him there were mistakes and not intentionally it was done like that. And ok – he says – I admit there are, but they are not intentional, I didn’t know, I don’t know what and so on. So I let him be happier. And he says – if you want to help me, Mile should consider the appeal, to return it to this guy to be resolved. Is it so?
МЈ: No, there is a simpler way.
NG: Do you know why I did so? I don’t know if I told you. He will sue Koce, Toni. It will come down to that.
МЈ: Should we keep going on or should we find a flaw?
NG: How?
МЈ: To find him a flaw?
NG: If there is a flaw, it is good to know that, then we’ll see how it will go on.
МЈ: OK.
NG: So, think about it how you are going to deal with it, but in a way…
МЈ: I know how, I know, I know.
NG: … that he can again, if it is necessary. But it shouldn’t… it shouldn’t be Koce’s or Toni’s fault. Because if this turns out to be Koce’s and Toni’s fault, he will take the money in court, with interest.
Toni and Koce will be guilty, with criminal charges and… maybe money, I don’t know. They are completely upset, they both send me messages all the time. I guess, to you, too. That’s not a solution.
МЈ: OK. I’ll take care of it so that I’ll tell him to withdraw the appeal, and Toni will close it. I think we had 2-3 meetings with Toni, so I know this case in details.
NG: And think again if necessary, how.
МЈ: Yes, yes. I will provide that simultaneously.
NG: Yes.
МЈ: OK, deal.
NG: OK, bye.
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