Wiretapping scandal set 27: The superintendence over the Administration for Security and Counter Intelligence
The wiretapped conversations played in this press conference show that in Macedonia a massive surveillance operation has been taking place, according to the president of SDSM, Zoran Zaev. As he puts it, the wiretapping operation was conducted via the existing system for communications tracking in the Administration for Security and Counter Intelligence (ASCI) at the Ministry of Interior (MOI) of the Republic of Macedonia. SDSM’s leader also said that he possesses more than 100.000 transcripts from conversations, more than 18.000 SMS text messages, and all that material is acquired from wiretapping more than 12.000 different phone numbers.
In the first played conversation we hear the then Minister of Interior, Gordana Jankuloska, saying that the equipment in possession of the MOI can locate any phone number. Afterwards, from her conversation with the then chief of the Bureau of Public Security, Ljupcho Todorovski – Radnikot, we hear another confirmation of that. Radnikot says that people in house arrest are being tracked, and they are going “to hospitals”.
Furthermore, in her conversation with Sasho Mijalkov, director of the ASCI, Jankuloska wonders if it is a good idea to promote the Center for Communications Tracking, when, “we say we don’t have recordings, we don’t have this, we don’t have that, yet we are promoting such Center”.
Next, we hear conversations between Gordana Jankuloska and Trajko Veljanoski, and Gordana Jankuloska and the director of ASCI, Mijalkov, while their engaged with the preparations for the legal framework about the ASCI, so the Parliamentary Committee for superintendence the ASCI and the Intelligence Agency would not be able to enter and start inspection without previous announcement. This occurred in September 2012, according to what Zaev said in this press conference. Mijalkov is afraid that the Law on Communications Tracking could give the Committee the possibility “to enter and stay for 12 months”, so he asks what the law provides for this. Jankuloska tells him that the Committee could enter in a pre-arranged time in a pre-arranged deadline. Mijalkov says that it would be the best for the ASCI if the law contains less defining terms, that’s what he believes in.
Jankuloska with Veljanoski clarifies the exact requests of SDSM regarding the Committee and how that can affect the ASCI. Jankuloska talks on the same subject with Nikola Poposki and Mitko Chavkov too. Chavkov is told that VMRO-DPMNE requests the deletion of the Paragraph related to the surveillance without announcement.
Later, from the conversation between Mijalkov and the owner of Kanal 5 TV station, Emil Stojmenov, we hear that it’s enough to say a phone number, so “the blue ones” would assist the “setting up” of him.
Finally, we can hear from Mijalkov about the number of employees he requested for the ASCI, because the operative has been increased and those people have to be trained to use the Israeli equipment. The people that must be tracked, i.e. the affiliated to the opposition, are named “these creatures” by Mijalkov. He also says that ASCI needs plenty of people “because of this party”, meaning of VMRO-DPMNE.
All of the “bombs” are here.
Press conference of Zoran Zaev, president of SDSM, in Skopje, 28th of April 2015
(Below you will find the transcript in English of the conversation between Jankuloska and Veljanoski)
Conversation between Gordana Jankuloska (then Minister of Interior) and Trajko Veljanoski (President of the Parliament)
TV: This law of yours, we have to do it, we can’t go…
GJ: Man, we have to find a solution for that…
GJ: I got the same input by the experts within my ministry. We talked with Sasho, he says we shouldn’t accept anything. I also told him it would be best if we don’t accept anything, but we cant adopt it, we don’t have two thirds…
TV: Well, then, how can we adopt it?
GJ: Well this is what I was trying to explain to them, and he says it is normal, they want to be more comfortable with the Administration for Security and Counter Intelligence (UBK).
TV: Huh, they now want that. I want many things too…
GJ: I also want them to be more comfortable, because I am the minister. I would be the one to blame if…
TV: I also want to have democracy here, with 120 MPs from VMRO.
GJ: Like that!? (Laughs)
TV: Of course, if it wasn’t for them…
GJ: Nope. Let’s meet if possible…
TV: Let me talk to Oliver first, and then I’ll see…
GJ: You just let me know, then we’ll arrange it with Toni.
TV: Deal, it’s agreed.
GJ: OK. Bye, ciao.
TV: I’ll see you tonight, right?
GJ: Yes, tonight at 7.
TV: All right.
GJ: Now, ciao.
This article was created within the framework of the Project to increase the accountability of the politicians and political parties Truthmeter implemented by Metamorphosis. The article is made possible by the generous support of the National Endowment for Democracy(NED) and The Balkan Trust for Democracy (BTD), a project of the German Marshall Fund of the United States, an initiative that supports democracy, good governance, and Euroatlantic integration in Southeastern Europe. The content is the responsibility of its author and does not necessarily reflect the views of Metamorphosis, National Endowment for Democracy, the Balkan Trust for Democracy, the German Marshall Fund of the United States, or its partners.